Re: [ALSC-Forum] Self-regulation and ICANN

[Daryl Tempesta]

> You're right, there is no scarcity of potential
>domain names.....you can always add new TLDs, >or in
extremis put a 1 in front of every word (as >they do
with phone numbers).etc.

People don't hoard phone number like domains, they are
diffrerent. And there is no scarcity in potential TLDs
and alternative root sytems.

>But there *is* a scarcity of space in people's heads,
which is why 
>trademarks are not *artificially* scarce, but in fact
reflect the 
>scarcity  of attention.

Scarcity, artificial or real, is a tool in collecting,
holding and using the power of control. 
We humans use tools to organize and use very complex
systems, like search engines, or directories, or even
word of mouth.  Using Trademarks to apply scarcity to
domains is not needed and in fact it is not effective
in detering wide acceptance of  new roots and systems.

>And because domain names get some of their >value by
association with trademarks, there *is* a >scarcity
(inversely related 
>to value)  vis a vis domain names that matters.

I think it should be said that Trademarks ATTEMPT to
reflect the scarcity. Designed before the internet, as
such a dinosaur. In fact even in trademarks, there are
hundreds of options for the same "mark" including
International, Federal, and state  systems. This is
the same problem for address and phone numbers ,
billions.  How do people find their way around with so
many choices? (satire) ; )

The Trademark system is not sufficient for the
Internet going forward. ICANN is destined to be an
international body which will gain final control of
the system and should unlink itself with the trademark
sytems. The real value of a domian is in the traffic
it produces, period.

ICANN is trying to establish itself as an essentally
un-regulated international entity. We should find it
disturbing that it may be the first one to be able to
create world wide taxes without local representation.

The Trademark  system is also incomplete: 

1) Often being overruled by International orgs like
WIPO ( imposing the UDRP)., and soon ICANN as
described above.  

2) Has no control over genaric names or item
categories, like cat.com, or buisness.com. or 
xmlc.com, In this manner domains are more like real
property.

In the way address and telephone systems build
infrastructures, ICANN should be creating additional
TLDS according to the demand, not setting
jurisdiction. But it is hard for big business to share
control, which by and large, has controlled ICANN.
(search: Cook Report  and ICANN)

"no product exists untill it exists in the mind of the
consumer"

Products must be marketed, if you domain is a product
or business, market it. It is not the implicit mission
of a domain to be a business or product. If it is,
GREAT, but there are FAR more domains which are not
used for commercial purposes.

 Seperating the buisness interests with the rest of
the possable uses of the internet structure is what we
are interested in. Notice I did not say eliminate
business but add individual representation in some
manner. 

And before asking "How do you think we should do
this?" I say have ICANN add the 9 atLarge members to
the board as a first step to showing that it EVEN
wants individual input. So far it smells like garlic,
it is garlic..only 5 at large members so far.

--- Esther Dyson <edyson@edventure.com> wrote:
> 
> You're right, there is no scarcity of potential
> domain names.....you can 
> always add new TLDs, or in extremis put a 1 in front
> of every word (as they 
> do with phone numbers).etc.
> 
> But there *is* a scarcity of space in people's
> heads, which is why 
> trademarks are not *artificially* scarce, but in
> fact reflect the scarcity 
> of attention. And because domain names get some of
> their value by 
> association with trademarks, there *is* a scarcity
> (inversely related to 
> value)  vis a vis domain names that matters.
> 
> Esther
> 
> 
> At 08:39 PM 7/16/2001, Daryl Tempesta wrote:
> 
> >If there was a system to manage structure (tlds,
> IP,
> >protocalls) instead of  means (politics) there
> would
> >be far less clamoring for control. because you
> could
> >add hundreds of TLDs. thus dividing power to the
> >masses.
> >
> >Simply by adding hundreds of TLDs, representing all
> of
> >  the groups that this body is trying to decide,
> they
> >would eventually begin to behave like de-facto
> >political party.
> >
> >One TLD group associated with this or that group.
> And
> >it is starting to happen with .coop. Soon they will
> >have a collective voice.
> >
> >Or you could continue to try to design something
> that
> >can neither avoid political control, nor be
> >successfully democratically ruled.
> >
> >Even the US has a balance of power and you can see
> it
> >is hardly perfect. Power is derived by scarcity,
> there
> >is no scarcity which isnt artificial on the
> internet.
> >
> >Just and idea.
> >
> >
> >
> >--- Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Mikael and all stakeholders or interested
> parties,
> > >
> > >   We would agree that 100% industry self
> regulation
> > > is pure
> > > folly.  I has never worked historically in the
> US or
> > > in any
> > > other country.  A partnership with governments
> is
> > > necessary.
> > >
> > > Mikael Pawlo wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, Esther Dyson wrote:
> > > > > Mikael, hi.   Most people do not consider
> the UN
> > > a model of transparency or
> > > > > accountability. We are trying to design
> > > something that *would* work as such
> > > > > a model, and that therefore would earn
> > > legitimacy without inheriting it
> > > > > from governments of questionable legitimacy.
> > > >
> > > > I find it hard to believe that ICANN could
> exist
> > > without the co-operation
> > > > or at least the acceptance of the national
> > > governments, no matter how
> > > > questionable their legitimacy as you put it
> (the
> > > issue of the .kids domain
> > > > is a good illustration of this and it will be
> most
> > > interesting to follow
> > > > the development in that respect). Further,
> most
> > > governments do - in my
> > > > opinion - represent their citizens. Maybe one
> > > should try to improve
> > > > democracy in the states lacking thereof, but
> > > creating a global body of
> > > > corporations, non-profit organizations,
> > > individuals, governments and other
> > > > constituencies is task that would make the
> stone
> > > of Sisyphos look like a
> > > > ping-pong ball.
> > > >
> > > > When it comes to the UN I can appreciate the
> > > reluctant attitude towards
> > > > it, expressed by many US citizens, but it
> still
> > > has - at least in
> > > > theory - some built-in mechanisms for
> > > accountability, international
> > > > representation and transparancy through it's
> > > members.
> > > >
> > > > I am not sure the UN is the appropriate forum
> for
> > > the ICANN function, but
> > > > an international body created by governments
> is -
> > > again in my point of
> > > > view - a more reasonable road to travel than
> pure
> > > self-regulation. The
> > > > function as such might not be suitable for
> > > self-regulation in the way you
> > > > and others promote.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > Mikael
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
>_________________________________________________________________________
> > > >
> > > >   ICQ:35638414
> > > mailto:mikael@pawlo.com
> > > >   +46-70 421 58 25
> > > http://www.pawlo.com/
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 118k members
> strong!)
> > > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA
> > > Development Eng.
> > > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > > Contact Number:  972-447-1800 x1894 or
> 214-244-4827
> > > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas
> 75208
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >=====
> >Daryl Tempesta
> >HotDot.com
> >288 Civic Center Dr
> >Scotts Valley, 95066
> >831-239-9656 (c)
> >831-439-9239 (h)
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> 
> 
> 
> Esther Dyson			Always make new mistakes!
> chairman, EDventure Holdings
> writer, Release 3.0 (on Website below)
> edyson@edventure.com
> 1 (212) 924-8800    --   fax  1 (212) 924-0240
> 104 Fifth Avenue (between 15th and 16th Streets;
> 20th floor)
> New York, NY 10011 USA
> http://www.edventure.com
> 
> High-Tech Forum in Europe: 7 to 9 November, Berlin
> PC FORUM: 24 to 27 March 2002, Scottsdale (Phoenix),
> Arizona
> 
> 


=====
Daryl Tempesta
HotDot.com
288 Civic Center Dr
Scotts Valley, 95066
831-239-9656 (c)
831-439-9239 (h)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/