Re: [ALSC-Forum] Re: Bottom up process and group dynamics

[Jeff Williams]

Eric and all stakeholders or interested parties,

Eric Dierker wrote:

> Excuse me gentlemen,
>
> Is not the ISOC a professional organization?

  Yes it is.  It is also a UN organization now as well...

>
>
> Isn't this like saying the lawyers should decide how best to protect my
> freedoms and needs?

  In a sense and to a degree, yes...

>  It is like the insurance companies deciding how much
> it will cost to fix my car after an accident.

  Well also in some sense, and to a degree, yes.  But this would depend
greatly on what insurance coverage you have and with what insurance
company.  So to a very great degree, also no...

>
>
> If you think that the ALSC should be elitist, then we need nothing more
> than the ISOC.

  I am sure this is not an accurate depiction or either the ALSC or the ISOC.
In fact, the ISOC cannot be compared well with the ALSC as the ALSC
is 1.), no longer in effect, 2.) ALSC= At Large study committee, and therefore
is not an legal entity in and of itself so it cannot realistically be compared
or associated in any meaningful way with the ISOC.

>
>
> Don't get me wrong I am applying to be a member of the ISOC.  I think they
> do great work.  But do not think they represent dotcommoners and consumers.

  I was a ISOC member for a number of years.  I am and have not been for
some time now.  The ISOC has been loosing membership for about 3 years
now due to a number of factors.  One of which is it is increasingly becoming
a "Toy" of big International business special interests.  Ergo, in no
reasonable
or realistic way does it represent stakeholders/users in any broad sense.
As a result very recently the ISOC is having allot of trouble staying
financially
solvent...  But perhaps after you have become a ISOC member Hi-Tek.com
will be forthcoming with a large financial donation from its internet Lottery
(see http://www.internetloto.com/ ) operations, and the ISOC's current
financial problems will subside.  >;)

>
>
> Sincerely,
> Eric
>
> >
> > Dear Dany,
> > methink that you just shown that the ICANN is a cover-up for ISOC and
> > that  the @large's problem is only a problem of "competition" with the
> > ISOC :-).  ISOC people are embarassed in having the USG asking them to
> > support two  @large structures while one is complex enough to develop
> > and control.
> >
> > Better to enter the ISOC and to change things from the inside of the
> > real  thing than trying to change things from inside the fake one. Oh!
> > yes the  ISOC is "Jon Postel style" ... well time as come to open the
> > windows....  and to get real.
> > jfc
> >
> >
> >
> > On 02:39 26/04/02, DannyYounger@cs.com said:
> >
> >>Bruce,
> >>
> >>You have remarked that "If we can draw in sufficient numbers
> >>world-wide, ICANN will have no choice but to recognize us, or face
> >>public disdain."
> >>
> >>Perhaps you haven't heard of another well-established world-wide
> >>organization whose members have a passionate interest in the Internet,
> >>who aren't represented as a constituent group within any of ICANN's
> >>current Supporting Organizations, who last year opened up new chapters
> >>in Ecuador, Bangladesh, Luxembourg, Poland, Georgia, and the Republic
> >>of Tatarstan, who have 1493 members in 24 chapters in the developing
> >>world, another 42 chapters in developed countries and still another 87
> >>chapters-in-formation with an overall contributing membership in excess
> >>of 7230 members.
> >>
> >>That organization is ISOC (the Internet Society), that twice
> >>participated in early efforts to manage the resource that ICANN now
> >>controls.  You may recognize some of the names of those prominent in
> >>the organization:  ISOC Founding Chairman Vint Cerf, ISOC-Benin Chapter
> >>president Pierre Dandjinou, ISOC-France Chairman Olivier Iteanu,
> >>ISOC-Mexico Board member Oscar Robles, ISOC-Mexico Chairman Alejandro
> >>Pisanty, ISOC Standards Officer Helmut Schink, ISOC-Japan Vice Chairman
> >>Jan Murai, and ISOC Founding Trustee Lyman Chapin, among others.
> >>
> >>Still, to this day ISOC is not "recognized" (as you have phrased it),
> >>and ICANN has suffered no public disdain by not "recognizing" that
> >>entity even though the full leadership of the ICANN Board stems from
> >>that organization. What makes you think that ICANN is going to feel any
> >>embarrassment or shame by not according your tiny nascent organization
> >>any recognition?
> >>
> >>The At-large is much bigger than any one group such as
> >>icannatlarge.com, and it requires a comprehensive plan to fully
> >>incorporate it (and its member organizations such as ISOC) within the
> >>ICANN structure.
> >>
> >>Bruce, you have argued that ICANN at the very least, should have
> >>respected your timeline and waited a few more months... what utter
> >>nonsense... they're supposed to stop what they're doing and wait for
> >>some other organization to get its act together?  That you choose not
> >>to abide by the same set of deadlines that everyone else must adhere to
> >>paints your organization as nothing more than an unbridaled arrogant
> >>rogue.
> >>
> >>Frankly, why should anyone on the Board want to deal with this group
> >>when in the first instance it is incredibly small, financially
> >>non-self-sustaining, won't adhere to generally accepted timetables, and
> >>is composed mostly of members that are already represented in the
> >>Supporting Organizations?
> >>
> >>...Just because you've managed to collect some 800 names on a list --
> >>none of whom have actually tendered any dues?  How impressive...  You
> >>might want to prove your commitment before you expect others to believe
> >>that such a commitment exists.
>
> http://www.Hi-Tek.com
> Reality in a Digital World
>
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Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
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