Re: [ALSC-Forum] Re: Bottom up process and group dynamics

[Eric Dierker]

Excuse me I did mean the AL instead of the ALSC.

I am sorry to here that they are doing poorly.  I had noticed that even 
though it had been registered there is no website, no e-mail and no 
participants for the ISOC in Vietnam.

UN chartering is often just a gobble up in the interest of big business.
I hope this will not be like a WIPO but more like a WHO.

Thanks for the clarification Jeff.

Eric
 
> Eric and all stakeholders or interested parties,
> 
> Eric Dierker wrote:
> 
>> Excuse me gentlemen,
>>
>> Is not the ISOC a professional organization?
> 
>   Yes it is.  It is also a UN organization now as well...
> 
>>
>>
>> Isn't this like saying the lawyers should decide how best to protect
>> my freedoms and needs?
> 
>   In a sense and to a degree, yes...
> 
>>  It is like the insurance companies deciding how much
>> it will cost to fix my car after an accident.
> 
>   Well also in some sense, and to a degree, yes.  But this would depend
> greatly on what insurance coverage you have and with what insurance
> company.  So to a very great degree, also no...
> 
>>
>>
>> If you think that the ALSC should be elitist, then we need nothing
>> more than the ISOC.
> 
>   I am sure this is not an accurate depiction or either the ALSC or the
>   ISOC.
> In fact, the ISOC cannot be compared well with the ALSC as the ALSC is
> 1.), no longer in effect, 2.) ALSC= At Large study committee, and
> therefore is not an legal entity in and of itself so it cannot
> realistically be compared or associated in any meaningful way with the
> ISOC.
> 
>>
>>
>> Don't get me wrong I am applying to be a member of the ISOC.  I think
>> they do great work.  But do not think they represent dotcommoners and
>> consumers.
> 
>   I was a ISOC member for a number of years.  I am and have not been
>   for
>some time now.  The ISOC has been loosing membership for about 3 years
>now due to a number of factors.  One of which is it is increasingly
>becoming a "Toy" of big International business special interests.  Ergo,
>in no reasonable
> or realistic way does it represent stakeholders/users in any broad
> sense. As a result very recently the ISOC is having allot of trouble
> staying financially
>solvent...  But perhaps after you have become a ISOC member Hi-Tek.com
>will be forthcoming with a large financial donation from its internet
>Lottery (see http://www.internetloto.com/ ) operations, and the ISOC's
>current financial problems will subside.  >;)
> 
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Eric
>>
>> >
>> > Dear Dany,
>> > methink that you just shown that the ICANN is a cover-up for ISOC
>> > and that  the @large's problem is only a problem of "competition"
>> > with the ISOC :-).  ISOC people are embarassed in having the USG
>> > asking them to support two  @large structures while one is complex
>> > enough to develop and control.
>> >
>> > Better to enter the ISOC and to change things from the inside of the
>> > real  thing than trying to change things from inside the fake one.
>> > Oh! yes the  ISOC is "Jon Postel style" ... well time as come to
>> > open the windows....  and to get real.
>> > jfc
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 02:39 26/04/02, DannyYounger@cs.com said:
>> >
>> >>Bruce,
>> >>
>> >>You have remarked that "If we can draw in sufficient numbers
>> >>world-wide, ICANN will have no choice but to recognize us, or face
>> >>public disdain."
>> >>
>> >>Perhaps you haven't heard of another well-established world-wide
>> >>organization whose members have a passionate interest in the
>> >>Internet, who aren't represented as a constituent group within any
>> >>of ICANN's current Supporting Organizations, who last year opened up
>> >>new chapters in Ecuador, Bangladesh, Luxembourg, Poland, Georgia,
>> >>and the Republic of Tatarstan, who have 1493 members in 24 chapters
>> >>in the developing world, another 42 chapters in developed countries
>> >>and still another 87 chapters-in-formation with an overall
>> >>contributing membership in excess of 7230 members.
>> >>
>> >>That organization is ISOC (the Internet Society), that twice
>> >>participated in early efforts to manage the resource that ICANN now
>> >>controls.  You may recognize some of the names of those prominent in
>> >>the organization:  ISOC Founding Chairman Vint Cerf, ISOC-Benin
>> >>Chapter president Pierre Dandjinou, ISOC-France Chairman Olivier
>> >>Iteanu, ISOC-Mexico Board member Oscar Robles, ISOC-Mexico Chairman
>> >>Alejandro Pisanty, ISOC Standards Officer Helmut Schink, ISOC-Japan
>> >>Vice Chairman Jan Murai, and ISOC Founding Trustee Lyman Chapin,
>> >>among others.
>> >>
>> >>Still, to this day ISOC is not "recognized" (as you have phrased
>> >>it), and ICANN has suffered no public disdain by not "recognizing"
>> >>that entity even though the full leadership of the ICANN Board stems
>> >>from that organization. What makes you think that ICANN is going to
>> >>feel any embarrassment or shame by not according your tiny nascent
>> >>organization any recognition?
>> >>
>> >>The At-large is much bigger than any one group such as
>> >>icannatlarge.com, and it requires a comprehensive plan to fully
>> >>incorporate it (and its member organizations such as ISOC) within
>> >>the ICANN structure.
>> >>
>> >>Bruce, you have argued that ICANN at the very least, should have
>> >>respected your timeline and waited a few more months... what utter
>> >>nonsense... they're supposed to stop what they're doing and wait for
>> >>some other organization to get its act together?  That you choose
>> >>not to abide by the same set of deadlines that everyone else must
>> >>adhere to paints your organization as nothing more than an
>> >>unbridaled arrogant rogue.
>> >>
>> >>Frankly, why should anyone on the Board want to deal with this group
>> >>when in the first instance it is incredibly small, financially
>> >>non-self-sustaining, won't adhere to generally accepted timetables,
>> >>and is composed mostly of members that are already represented in
>> >>the Supporting Organizations?
>> >>
>> >>...Just because you've managed to collect some 800 names on a list
>> >>-- none of whom have actually tendered any dues?  How impressive... 
>> >>You might want to prove your commitment before you expect others to
>> >>believe that such a commitment exists.
>>
>> http://www.Hi-Tek.com
>> Reality in a Digital World
>>
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> 
> Regards,
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
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