Re: [ALSC-Forum] Re: Bottom up process and group dynamics

[eric]

No Bruce you completely take this out of context.

I have no doubt that they may contribute beneficially.

but they are no doubt elitists.  If that word bothers some, it does not bother
me.  it is not like fascists or something,  it simply refers to an organization
or grouping that defines itself by credentials that only those with enough
privilege can obtain.  They are a great group and as I said earlier due to my
privileges I hope to join and work with Mr. Probst in developing more than a low
tech-no site no email location in Vietnam.

Eric

Bruce Young wrote:

> Eric wrote:
>
> >Is not the ISOC a professional organization?
>
> Mostly.  But that isn't the point.  Whether it be ICANNATLARGE.COM or some
> other body, the At Large needs to speak with a unified voice.  That is not
> to say that it need not include a multitude of groups under its umbrella,
> because it is very critical that it do so.  Only a single umbrella
> organization with a large user concensus, can expect to effectively say they
> speak for the Internet user at large.
>
> IMO, considering its "roots" that extend back to the original At Large
> electorate through a continuos member presence in this forum,
> ICANNATLARGE.COM is well-positioned to be that unbrella.  But it need not
> be.  The point is: some group needs to be.
>
> Bruce Young
> Portland, Oregon
> Bruce@barelyadequate.info
> http://www.barelyadequate.info
> --------------------------------------------
> Support democratic control of the Internet!
> Go to http://www.icannatlarge.com and Join ICANN At Large!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-forum@www.atlargestudy.org
> [mailto:owner-forum@www.atlargestudy.org]On Behalf Of Eric Dierker
> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 11:00 PM
> To: jefsey@wanadoo.fr
> Cc: forum@atlargestudy.org
> Subject: Re: [ALSC-Forum] Re: Bottom up process and group dynamics
>
> Excuse me gentlemen,
>
> Is not the ISOC a professional organization?
>
> Isn't this like saying the lawyers should decide how best to protect my
> freedoms and needs?  It is like the insurance companies deciding how much
> it will cost to fix my car after an accident.
>
> If you think that the ALSC should be elitist, then we need nothing more
> than the ISOC.
>
> Don't get me wrong I am applying to be a member of the ISOC.  I think they
> do great work.  But do not think they represent dotcommoners and consumers.
>
> Sincerely,
> Eric
>
> >
> > Dear Dany,
> > methink that you just shown that the ICANN is a cover-up for ISOC and
> > that  the @large's problem is only a problem of "competition" with the
> > ISOC :-).  ISOC people are embarassed in having the USG asking them to
> > support two  @large structures while one is complex enough to develop
> > and control.
> >
> > Better to enter the ISOC and to change things from the inside of the
> > real  thing than trying to change things from inside the fake one. Oh!
> > yes the  ISOC is "Jon Postel style" ... well time as come to open the
> > windows....  and to get real.
> > jfc
> >
> >
> >
> > On 02:39 26/04/02, DannyYounger@cs.com said:
> >
> >>Bruce,
> >>
> >>You have remarked that "If we can draw in sufficient numbers
> >>world-wide, ICANN will have no choice but to recognize us, or face
> >>public disdain."
> >>
> >>Perhaps you haven't heard of another well-established world-wide
> >>organization whose members have a passionate interest in the Internet,
> >>who aren't represented as a constituent group within any of ICANN's
> >>current Supporting Organizations, who last year opened up new chapters
> >>in Ecuador, Bangladesh, Luxembourg, Poland, Georgia, and the Republic
> >>of Tatarstan, who have 1493 members in 24 chapters in the developing
> >>world, another 42 chapters in developed countries and still another 87
> >>chapters-in-formation with an overall contributing membership in excess
> >>of 7230 members.
> >>
> >>That organization is ISOC (the Internet Society), that twice
> >>participated in early efforts to manage the resource that ICANN now
> >>controls.  You may recognize some of the names of those prominent in
> >>the organization:  ISOC Founding Chairman Vint Cerf, ISOC-Benin Chapter
> >>president Pierre Dandjinou, ISOC-France Chairman Olivier Iteanu,
> >>ISOC-Mexico Board member Oscar Robles, ISOC-Mexico Chairman Alejandro
> >>Pisanty, ISOC Standards Officer Helmut Schink, ISOC-Japan Vice Chairman
> >>Jan Murai, and ISOC Founding Trustee Lyman Chapin, among others.
> >>
> >>Still, to this day ISOC is not "recognized" (as you have phrased it),
> >>and ICANN has suffered no public disdain by not "recognizing" that
> >>entity even though the full leadership of the ICANN Board stems from
> >>that organization. What makes you think that ICANN is going to feel any
> >>embarrassment or shame by not according your tiny nascent organization
> >>any recognition?
> >>
> >>The At-large is much bigger than any one group such as
> >>icannatlarge.com, and it requires a comprehensive plan to fully
> >>incorporate it (and its member organizations such as ISOC) within the
> >>ICANN structure.
> >>
> >>Bruce, you have argued that ICANN at the very least, should have
> >>respected your timeline and waited a few more months... what utter
> >>nonsense... they're supposed to stop what they're doing and wait for
> >>some other organization to get its act together?  That you choose not
> >>to abide by the same set of deadlines that everyone else must adhere to
> >>paints your organization as nothing more than an unbridaled arrogant
> >>rogue.
> >>
> >>Frankly, why should anyone on the Board want to deal with this group
> >>when in the first instance it is incredibly small, financially
> >>non-self-sustaining, won't adhere to generally accepted timetables, and
> >>is composed mostly of members that are already represented in the
> >>Supporting Organizations?
> >>
> >>...Just because you've managed to collect some 800 names on a list --
> >>none of whom have actually tendered any dues?  How impressive...  You
> >>might want to prove your commitment before you expect others to believe
> >>that such a commitment exists.
>
> http://www.Hi-Tek.com
> Reality in a Digital World
>
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